Finding Joy in Marketing and Scaling Deep with guest Lisa Princic

Finding Joy in Marketing and Scaling Deep with guest Lisa Princic

There are so many different marketing strategies out there – from using SMS short codes (Read more about this here) to SEO – that it can be hard to know about them all and understand which ones will work best for you. This is why I’m kicking off “The Joy of Marketing” month, where I’ll be talking with small business owners and marketing experts about how they have found ease and joy in their marketing.

Would you like to read the transcript of this show, instead of listening? Scroll to the bottom of this recap for a full transcript.

Lisa Princic is the branding and growth specialist behind “Scaling Deep,” which is the name of both her business and podcast. I knew she was a great fit for “Joy of Marketing Month” here on the show because her approach to growing your business is refreshingly distinctive. Instead of doing “all the things” or feeling like you need to be “everything to everyone,” she encourages entrepreneurs to scale deep. In other words, identify your niche that matches your zone of genius (aka the work you REALLY want to do) and build your business around that.

Finding Joy in Marketing and Scaling Deep with guest Lisa Princic

What I love about our discussion on the podcast (click play to listen above) is that we talk about the things that have made a difference in our respective businesses, and led to more of an ease-filled approach to marketing. The truth is that each person and each business would probably have a different approach to what works and fits right with their business. For instance, in the case of online fashion merchandise or the hospitality industry, having a Facebook or Instagram growth service would work wonders as the platforms have enough users to help generate targeted marketing and sales. On the other hand, industries like finance might find more benefits working with a software marketing company, like LeadJig or similar ones, who can help with seminars and conferences where they can meet potential clients.

In this case, Lisa identifies a few things she sees that can make a difference for her clients in building a business and communicating what they can do for potential customers. A lot of times, her clients tend to look to her for complete guidance as they do not really understand what is digital marketing and how it can boost their business like nothing else. At the heart of things, she says, marketing is a conversation.

“Follow your personality, trust who you are and how it feels to show up. I scaled deep by going to conferences. I’m an extrovert, so I love getting out and actually meeting real people. And then I make meaningful relationships, I have some follow-ups, and then there are just like one or two people with who I maintain a relationship over time. And that’s really, really exciting.

And I think that’s a very viable business model. I think a lot of people are running businesses that way, but those aren’t the ones that we’re seeing out there in the mass marketing because we are receiving all the mass marketing and advertising. So that’s all we see. So we think we need to do that in order to be successful, but actually, that doesn’t work for anyone who’s not massive. It might be necessary in such cases to consider alternative marketing tools that small businesses like us can benefit from. Say, pay-per-click management, social media advertising, or even search engine optimization provided by marketing agencies like iTonic, or similar others that can deliver marketing strategies tailored to meet our needs.”

Lisa Princic of Scaling Deep

In this episode, Lisa Princic and I talk about:

-Loving adventures with her parents as a child and sharing those same things with her son
-Her evolution: a journey from life coach to business coach, and now a business strategist who also helps people set up Facebook Ads
-The importance of finding your own niche that lights you up
-The confidence that comes from finding your way to a business that feels authentic, and like a match for your personality
-That there are many successful solo and entrepreneurships out there that are not doing mass marketing
-It’s OK if the tactics that others are doing isn’t a match for you or your business
-You can have a successful small or solo business without the mass marketing we’re all seeing, and by focusing on a few key outreach components
-How to simplify and pick something that provides tangible results for people
-When to pivot your business or marketing if it feels off to you. You may not have yet landed on your true message or path.

Lisa Princic’s Website: Scaling Deep
Lisa’s podcast: Scaling Deep

Paula on Lisa Princic’s Scaling Deep Podcast

Transcript of Finding Joy in Marketing and Scaling Deep with guest Lisa Princic

Paula Jenkins: So welcome to the show, Lisa Princic.

Lisa Princic: Thank you. I’m so excited to be here, Paula.

Paula Jenkins: Yay. Oh, it was such a treat to get to meet you at She podcasts, and I don’t know if you want to share any aha moments from there if you have some?

Lisa Princic: I think what I loved about it, it wasn’t so much an aha moment. I feel like I was learning. I learned a little bit about podcasting, but I also just love being around this mix between mission impact and business, because it wasn’t all about business and it was a lot of people who are just like, we need to get our message out.

So I think I was just inspired by the. The quality of people there and the intention they had to do good things, not just make money, which is always fun to have that there as well. But it was a really great mix of more grass roots, but still professional. And that’s a really unique combination to find, a conference.

So that was a definitely fun. And of course I met you and we’ve caught a few chats, so that’s been awesome. I had you on my podcast not long ago, and. I had met a great client who really needs me to help her with things that I love doing. Oh yeah. On a friend of mine that I went with, we decided to launch our own podcast coming up soon. a lot of things came out of that. I think that’s awesome.

Paula Jenkins: And so I’ll link up to our past episode on your show, which is so much fun. Thank you for having me on there too. An early question that I like to ask everybody is, tell us what you love most as a child or in school.

What were your earliest sparks of joy?

Lisa Princic: I been thinking about this recently actually, well, what are my memories and. Because I’ve got a son who’s eight I’ve been thinking about what kind of life do I want to lead with him for the next 10 years.

And I was thinking back and everything I remember are, are the adventures, the crazy things that we did outside or the trips that we took. So I think things like, being on a summer road trip, driving across the country. The couple times that we did going on this long winded tour around the maritime provinces for three weeks, even though my parents had to drag me there, just all the adventures running around my grandparents orchard like have all just been outside and exploring, and so I think that’s what still lights me up.

Now I’m noticing that’s all I really care about. I don’t want more stuff. I just want to be able to be out in the world more. Yeah. And as much as possible.

Paula Jenkins: Yes. I have a nine year old boy and I try so hard to make sure that we have adventures together because I feel like that is the thing that I remember we used to do this thing, it’s random, but my mom would let us take a day off. My dad worked at a company called Mervyn’s, which,

the people in the U S will maybe remember, but so they would get a day off called a “Merv Day” at his work. And so my mom would call the “Merv Days “for us and we’d be like, you can just tell me you don’t want to go to school one time a year. And it’s on like, you don’t have to go. And so putting those little things into a day for a kid or putting it in play for them is so, memorable and lovely. And it does, it brings about joy.

Lisa Princic: And it’s quality time. And all they want to do is hang out with their parents for the first many years before they probably switched into, where all, they care about other friends, so giving them , that quality time is what they want.

And I think that, sometimes we’re so busy doing things or trying to get ahead or providing the revenue in our businesses for example, or in our work to bring the money home to be able to afford things. But that’s not what they want. I mean, yes, they think they want toys, but they’re not going to remember the toys as much as the, as the hanging out with people they love.

Paula Jenkins: Yeah. So true. Well, it, so this month that we are in right now is all about finding the “Joy in Marketing.” So I’m expecting that we will have a rather interesting conversation here about it. And your show, you recently renamed it to Scaling Deep, would you explain what that, what that means to you and how you arrived at that name?

Lisa Princic: Scaling deep is about the intersection of our human desire to grow and evolve with our desire to have meaning and impact and fulfillment. And I have found in life that those two things are often almost opposing in our, in our lives. Like we’re, “Oh, I need to grow, I need to earn more, I need to gain more.”

And there is this natural sort of egotistical part of us that wants that because that’s how we’ve survived with that.

“Well, what is this all about? And is there more to life than this? And am I feeling empty when I’m achieving these goals?” And so I’ve always battled that and I’ve always been aware of those two polarities.

And after university it’s just how I think it’s what I spent most of my, time and my life, exploring and discovering , and grappling with. So I , became a life coach in 2008 I decided I need to do something meaningful and I said the worst case scenario is that at least I get some personal development through that program, because there’s a lot of coaching you receive.

And when I started that work, I had a hard time growing the business because even though I felt like I am a results oriented person who’s ambitious, I struggled with valuing the money side. Because it was like, how much do I really need and what am I striving for?

So I struggled with that for so long that I think when I did evolve my business to being more of a business coach. At the time, I actually ran a program called Scaling Deep because I think I was exploring what are the solutions or the ways beyond mass marketing having to be online all the time.

And so I ran a course called Scaling Deep. Of course, whenever I decided to re run a course, I used to try to buy the URL. This is the way that most of us probably do things,, and I kept that name and that was like 2016 and when I was actually podcast.

Oh yeah, here’s another aha. I was saying, “Hey, I’ve got this URL. It’s about to expire. I haven’t done anything with it. What should I do?”

And she said, “I think you should just change your whole brand to that. “

And I was like, “Good point.” And I had no intention to change my ground cause I have my URL for my name and I’ve had it as for seven years at the time and I don’t really have a preference between personal brands and more of a like generic could be more people brand because , I didn’t have a goal to run, an agency or I don’t have a goal to sell my business.

But it just came about that I was like, “yes,” Because I’d also been exploring the whole concept of the Three Word Rebellion, which dr Michelle Mazer has a book about and I’d read that book and I didn’t really come up with her rebellion. But it was this idea of a three word expression that catalyzes change, says a lot more about what you believe in, and evokes curiosity. And for people to question their own state in that regard.

As soon as I started down that path of I should probably just do this, I realized that, “Oh yeah, Scale Deep. Like that’s my two-word rebellion.”

So it’s got a lot of connotations. that’s the back story. So it was kind of a part of a something that I just obviously decided like years ago, and then came up again and I just went, yep, that makes sense.

And didn’t question it and just went for it.

Paula Jenkins: I think that’s great. I think there’s something around having also been through life coach training and, I still coach. My own story is I started the podcast at the end of my training as the marketing arm for that. And then of course, as you know, the business became the podcast, but I dunno, I think there’s something about finding your way to the specific thing that you love and for me, the life coaching piece was also a journey of figuring out who I was. And that then led me to scale deep, if you will.

Lisa Princic: Yeah. and for me, it’s about saying that we can grow, but I think Scaling Deep is a little bit about business model. It’s a little bit about wanting guiding depth. It’s about marketing. it’s the idea, because I do more marketing now that you don’t have to be everywhere all the time.

You don’t have to try to be in front of the masses. You can follow your personality, trust who you are and how it feels to show up and where, like I scaled deep by going to conferences and not tons), but like I love going to conferences. I meet my best clients at conferences. . And that to me, it may not be a, a massive growth strategy. That gets in front of, you know, thousands. But it also just feels really fun. Like I love extrovert, right? So I love getting out and actually meeting real people sometimes. And I live in a small town where there isn’t a lot of local networking.

So I, I would rather just do it all at once in two to three days , and then make meaningful relationships like enough that I don’t take away like 20 business cards. I have some followups, and then there’s just like one or two people who I maintain a relationship with over time. And that’s really, really exciting.

And I think that’s a very viable business model. Like I think a lot of people are running businesses that way, but those aren’t the ones that we’re seeing out there in the mass marketing because we are getting, receiving all the mass marketing advertising.

Paula Jenkins: Yes.

Lisa Princic: So that’s all we see. So we think we need to do that in order to be successful. But actually that doesn’t work for anyone who’s not massive. So it’s kind of a funny, I kind of like challenging that. Yes, that works. That company is that solo preneur is it has a $5 million business and yes, they need to be doing these eight tactics, but you as a hundred thousand dollar entrepreneur, you don’t need to have eight tactics. If you’re a smaller business, you just need to have one or two and the one or two places that you show up, like a pro that you love. And you can give your best value and content. And everyone is everywhere these days.

You can get enough out of one channel, if you show up on one channel and you love being there, there’s enough of your tribe there to grow a business one by one. And I like that idea as well as it Scaling Deep is also about growth by doing it, by serving clients better as well. And not just focusing on the numbers.

Paula Jenkins: Yes. Oh, and I was like literally doing a little happy dance. I was like nodding my head as you were talking about how we see the messaging from, we’ll call them the big guys or the big brands or the bigger solopreneurs, because they are one a different, probably level.

They’ve been out there maybe longer or they just have a, a larger income stream that’s letting them purchase the ads or make the noise in a different way. But I, but the piece that I feel like was the really,” ah!” Those of us who are growing by relationship and growing one by one like you’re talking about. I’m not running Facebook ads. I’m talking about my message quietly in a, in a way, but I’m not, in “the hustle.” I’m not making the noise. And if you’re on my newsletter, thank you. I love you.

But I’m also not out there running the strategic launches. Maybe someday I will. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with any of them, but like that’s just not how I’m running a business right now.

Lisa Princic: And there’s a lot of people making tons of money that are making not a lot of noise in marketing. Cause that’s the other thing is that we don’t see what’s also working, that doesn’t have to be loud and massive. and it’s not saying that one thing might or might not work for you.

So I have a couple, I have a Scaling Deep marketing roadmap that I have an example on it, which is kind of my business model that I don’t really say in it, but I’ll tell anyone. And it’s like, cause I wanna simplify.

People find me on Google, and then they may listen to a podcast episode or land on my website. Later. they decide to book with me a consult, and then they’ll potentially hire me. So that is like one of my main paths of revenue and it’s like the most simple thing with the least amount of steps and it’s really predictable.

It’s so simple and it’s not massive at all. I’m just, I have a really well written positioned website. I’ve been online long enough that it shows up when people do Google searches, which is unbelievable, I know, but that’s my main source.

And I also am planning to do Facebook ads because. I’ve learned about Facebook ads. I also offer Facebook ads as a service, so now I’m good at it. I’m efficient. I know how to get the costs down, and I want to run that to my Scaling Eeep roadmap. And so it seems odd and it may or may not be wildly successful. It’s not really the point.

I think the point is the simplicity, is that right?

I have ongoing content that keeps my website highly ranked. I’m good at ads, so I can likely bring in people to getting into knowing more about me and getting something from me for, from that funnel. And I’d rather do that then post on three different social media places every single day, twice a day, or even every day.

Paula Jenkins: Right.

Lisa Princic: So that just works better for me because I love the numbers and I love being able to track. And so I would rather do that then, and I love writing copy, and I’d rather do that for one ad or like for tests or ads then write a post every single day on Instagram.

Paula Jenkins: Right.

Lisa Princic: So it’s, it’s more efficient.

So I think that’s what it’s about. and this is what I’d like to say to people, is that you can do anything. You can choose any tactic, but don’t do like a ton of them, right? Yeah. And how simple it is.

Paula Jenkins: I love that your underlying piece of simplicity, and there’s also the piece there about the foundation of it, which happens to be the word I’ve chosen for this year, but it is laying down the foundation so that it can serve you. By you having a well a ranking site that keeps bringing in new people that are looking for specific search terms. Like it’s doing some of the heavy lifting for you, which is brilliant,

I feel like when people are out there posting without a lot of results on social media. If it’s just to try and drum up business and they don’t have a real direction that they’re trying to head or a message that they’re trying to share specifically on that medium, like it feels like a lot.

Maybe they’re just adding more noise and more work that isn’t yielding anything, which I think is where we get into burnout territory.

Lisa Princic: Well, and people aren’t always looking for it. And that’s the lucky thing is that when people are looking online. They’re looking at business coach or something like that, and they’re finding me.

I get found pretty far and wide, and at least across Canada, I get found and I had people from the U S find me, which from those types of terms, or maybe as business strategists or marketing strategists, so that they are looking for somebody, they’ve already decided they need help on Instagram or LinkedIn.

How many impressions do you need to get before you find somebody who’s actually like, “Oh, I happen to be thinking about this,” right?

So it’s like there’s the what can, how can you make it more direct? And this is also why I want to experiment with, Facebook ads to this small product. I have the roadmap because I want to find people who are directly grappling with the very issue of how do I create a marketing roadmap that’s customized that works for me?

And they’re going to have that problem , and so instead of just putting it out into the ether and hoping that there’s some people or happen to be thinking about that this, this process tries to efficiently find the people who are really grappling with that.

Paula Jenkins: Yeah. And I love the, in turn, that’s the joy of marketing for you because you’re curious about how it will work. You love the content itself, and like I can sense that you really love looking at the numbers and that’s part of the fun and the joy and the game of it for you.

I mean, is there kind of that match as well?

Lisa Princic: Yeah, I’m a results oriented person and I mean, not like I’m a numbers person on a light level, I don’t want to spend all day on them. I think it’s more like I want to know what’s working, and I really want to be able to offer something to people that I’m like, “here’s the numbers.”

Like I’m not really going to. beef it off or pump it up and make it sound like it’s better than it is. There’s an honest conversation that happens with that kind of transparency and that’s what I like.

I just added Facebook ads last year as a service and that was a really big decision cause it was a huge learning curve.

But the part of the reason why I liked it was like, wow, this is very challenging. But I also love the fact that it is strategic. Like when I talk to a new client yesterday and I said, “I’ll just going to be honest with you, I am a strategist, so I’m going to ask you questions about like their whole funnel so I can make sure this is going to work for you.”

And in that hour, it wasn’t quite an onboarding, it was just our consult, I helped her work out pricing that made much more sense, that wasn’t confusing And that’s just something I can’t help but add because I like to look at things that are going to work. I don’t want to just say,” Oh, I’ll take your money and do this piece.”

Paula Jenkins: Right.

Lisa Princic: So that’s also the way that I think anyone can add depth to the service that they offer. Instead of just being like, I will do the thing I said I do.”

It’s how do you really impress people? Like, how do you really get them excited and feel like, yeah, like you’re exactly who I want to hire right now because you’re offering more value for less money than others. And that, that’s thrilling when somebody finds somebody who’s like up and coming and comes with all these skills that isn’t charging thousands and thousands for this thing. Cause you know, there’s so many people out there doing that, right. And that’s not the way you get there.

You don’t start out chart overcharging for like the highest in the market. You start out by giving people and delighting them, like giving them a bit more than they expect.

Paula Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah, and I find that often the delight when I’m engaged with a client it’s because I love heir, their message or whatever it is they’re doing so much that I really cannot help myself but to share the other little nuggets that come along with what my experience offers them.

Like it’s coming from this really fun place of like, “how else can we grow this for you? Or , how can we get your podcast in front of more eyeballs? Or , how can we extend the amazing message that this person has to a new place so that they can continue the work that they do?”

And that’s, part of that delight. Yeah. And it’s fun for doing.

Lisa Princic: I know. And imagine the fact that you can grow your business that way without having pressure. Gotta get somebody els,e got to move on. Like I can’t do that because, because I have something else I need to do because I’m on this growth track I just feel like not everyone’s wired to grow a business that way, but yet those are the examples we see out there.

You know, the people who grew fast, or were the “10 year overnight sensation,” meaning like they’ve been doing some things for a while and then all of a sudden skyrocketed. That’s like, they worked really hard before that and they worked a lot. And not everyone’s wired to work at that level of performance and pressure.

Paula Jenkins: Right.

Lisa Princic: And , we are kind of told , “do an online course.”

It’s like, without an audience. So without a super, super like niche and no marketing experience and copywriting and all that, that’s likely not going to sell.

And yes, everyone wants the outcome, but they’re years away from having the skill set or the, the narrowness of the niche and all that to getting there. So it’s like we’re seeing examples only of what works at levels that a lot of these, a lot of people aren’t at yet. And so that’s what’s missing in the market.

Paula Jenkins: Right?

Lisa Princic: It’s really the reality.

Paula Jenkins: Well, and the truth. Like you’re saying, the reality of the situation of it is gonna in many cases, take a while for you to kind of find your footing.

Experiment have fun and play with what you like. Like I would never have guessed starting out, I mean, as I said, I thought this podcast was going to support a life coach business, but then people started asking me, how do you do that? And can you show me how? And then I was like, wait, this is the business.

And I wouldn’t have known that if I hadn’t tried, if I’d just gone out and said, “okay, well here’s my newsletter and here’s my online course.” And because I had to have all the experience that I was gathering in that moment before I’d be able to offer the breadth of services that I do now in the way that I do.

Lisa Princic: And I think, that , what’s people aren’t recognizing is being someone who went from, okay, life coach to business coach, business strategist to now marketing strategist who offers business design as well… Like let’s map, like look at your whole business. Let’s look at your offers and your pricing and the funnel, like the path that they get from here to there and the positioning and all that. That’s really hard to sell.

Facebook ads. It’s like, “Oh, you do ads. I was thinking of doing ads, let’s talk.”

And then that’s like, if they’re interested. And they are ready cause they have things that will sell well enough, then it’s easy. Whereas trying to be the all things to all people or super customized or a generic kind of offer is really hard.

And so the best thing I think anyone can do early on, it’s got a really highly tangible skillset that they can then sell very easily to very clearly, people know where they’d like it or not. They define, I have a need for this or I don’t.

Paula Jenkins: Yeah.

Lisa Princic: And if it could be recurring revenue, even better, because then you don’t need as many clients. And then imagine having that buffer of five to 10,000 like for a newer business, like a five to 10,000 a month, it was like you didn’t actually have to go out and get new new clients.

And it was ongoing. It wasn’t like, “Oh, a six month coaching contract.” It was like year after year they’re going to have like you this podcast. Yeah. Or do ads. I think that kind of thing will really help people then be able to experiment with more joy because the fear of not earning or something is taken care of.

Paula Jenkins: Yeah, totally. I’ve found that to be true and , I very much love to what you’re saying that’s kind of inherent in this is that joy is often for me, and probably for a lot of people that are coaches or consultants, is it’s the interpersonal and the relationship piece of it. I mean, that’s what I always love the most as a project manager.

Back when I was one, you know, ad agency world was like getting to know the people and getting to know a brand so well that I was able to like intuitively get into their business with them as easily as they could.

But it was also about the relationship. I feel like I wanted so much for this person and their career and how they looked like it was coming from this humble place of a servant’s heart of like, “I want this for you so much.”

And I think the relationship piece of it is what is key there, and I know you’ve talked about it in other places as well, is it’s that relationship building.

Even going back to conferences. Where you find the people and you know you’ve got the foundation of something that you really like and you want to work with. And then from there, the business is like the marketing. It’s kind of non-existent almost because it’s just natural.

Lisa Princic: Oh yeah. And people whose businesses I love. Well, I want them to do better , that’s really exciting for me to see them succeed. And I think if anyone else identifies as somebody who needs to feel satisfied from the actual work they’re doing ,and not just the revenue, then I would really pay attention to the relationship type of business because that’s where you’re going to be more fulfilled.

I really needed to make sure that I had set up my business and my offers in a way that I was attracting the kind of people who I could get the best results for, and who actually did something like actually got the results, whether it was them doing it on their own or now I’m doing more stuff for them or with them.

But before I even had more control over some of that, I would set them up to do all these things and then they wouldn’t always do it, and that wasn’t very satisfying for me. Even though the information was good, they had a block or they weren’t ready or they weren’t committed, and they got overwhelmed and they didn’t necessarily do anything with it.

And , that was just hard. So I had to change my positioning to attract people who are like, “Oh, I need this. Right. And I will use it.”

And that has been so amazing to see that. and that gives me confidence, right?

Marketing is all about confidence. If you’re confident in what you do and how well you do it, you market naturally. Because you just are totally confident that there’s no reason why what you do isn’t a value to people. So you don’t question it, and it’s when we question it that we get in the way of marketing.

Paula Jenkins: Yeah. So true. And I think when you’re in that space of confidence and joy and in an service of the thing that you love, it’s very easy to talk because marketing is really all about communications and conversations. So when you are in a space of like, “well, yeah, of course I want to talk about this all the time.”

Well then like marketing is like breathing. It’s no different.

But, and I think that was the thing that was an aha moment for me back when I had a blog and it never grew.

Lisa Princic: You know, the same thing happened with me.

Paula Jenkins: Some of it now, provides ongoing SEO for my own sites still, a couple of articles, , but then when I switched into something that I loved and I can’t stop talking about, that’s when it grew.

And I think maybe it’s if somebody is in that space of feeling like, but I don’t know how, and this feels like it’s treachery or like really hard? Well then I think maybe there’s a pivot they need to look for, or they need to just turn towards something that feels more joyful in whatever that thing is. Because, I don’t want to discourage anyone, but I think maybe they haven’t quite found the thing yet.

Lisa Princic: Yeah. and that’s important. So it’s important to be mindful of trying to find the business offer thing. That took me years, to really pull back to offering a couple of extra things now, which is like the Facebook ads then some more marketing management and sort of fractional COO work that I do. But also, I scaled back like three months business strategy packages to a half day session, because I felt like that was going to give people the best start and all the information they needed. Really figuring out with some followup supports, really helping them figure out their brand, their positioning, and their whole strategy.

And then if they needed to go off and hire support or. Okay, get a VA or whatever they needed, they could do that and then I wasn’t there , as the accountability support, I was there as the like providing the roadmap. And that was like,” wow, that’s the service that I feel awesome about and I know I can get people the best results immediately.”

And that was just natural. And it was easier to explain, easier to sort of sell, because it was easier to explain what the result would be and what we would do because I’d gotten it down to a science. So there’s so much art within those sessions, but it’s very like there’s a certain components of a business model and you’re going to look at them.

So that’s the thing, simplifying and focusing the offers so that it’s so clear. That you’re confident selling it. People know what they get, you know how to describe it, and you know who it’s for and you don’t, and they know who it’s for and who is not for.

And then the same with the marketing. Find that one place that you love showing up, that it’s natural, that you connect with people that you actually feel fulfilled doing, and you come back from it feeling great. That’s how simple it needs to be. And it is a work in progress. You may not have, it instantly took me years, but. that’s when things start to flow.

Paula Jenkins: Yes. Yeah. And that’s where I think, well, that’s where I know the joy is, is when you can hit the flow. so good.

Lisa Princic: Yeah. I think it’s takes some mindfulness. I think it takes a little bit of pacing to figure that out.

It’s not about rushing and hustling. I think it’s about sitting back and going, “would anything happened differently if I don’t show up on Instagram for a week, like honestly, like testing your metal a little bit and being like, is this really going to matter?”

And being willing to not feel the desperate feeling and kind of allow things to emerge. There’s a lot more that can come out of that than just being busy and filling, filling up the schedule.

Paula Jenkins: Totally agree. Well, and I feel you definitely have to come back cause I feel like this conversation needs to keep going.

Lisa Princic: We will have to still talk about the personality and business style some days, so we’ll do that. Totally agree.

Paula Jenkins: So, if somebody is having an aha moment and they want to find you, where can they find you and what kinds of offerings do you have for people right now?

Lisa Princic: Yeah, so I’m at I can be found on Instagram, if you want to follow me. I’m not on there like engaging all the time, but I’m there.

And I have, as I mentioned, the Scaling Deep Marketing Roadmap, which is, at this time, $37

It’s really my business design session, which is the first thing I like to offer people is that sort of half day, let’s map out the business. Let’s figure out where the holes are in your marketing. Let’s figure out where the positioning is. Not quite like the messaging and your business isn’t quite right, communicating what you do that I have I as an offer still, but I also have this roadmap where I’ve got some training and it’s gets self-guided business design session, so that I think is really worth doing. For any business, and I highly encourage you to do that first. And then of course, there’s my Scaling Deep Podcast, which is available for anyone to listen to you all the time.

Paula Jenkins: Awesome. all right. and of course I’ll link up to all those things in the show notes. You guys can find them. And along with the episode we had, I love your podcast very much, and it’s always a treat to get to talk to you because I just feel like such synergy between the,

Lisa Princic: I know, right? We had this immediate connection, didn’t we?

Paula Jenkins: yeah. so last and most joyfully, what are three ways that you can think of to jumpstart joy in your life? In the world or in other people’s lives?

Lisa Princic: I would say being a self-aware, it’s my favorite. Yeah. Taking action, before overthinking things too much, because that always leads you to the next step.

And I just say, taking care of yourself, like taking care of the important things that, and fill you up, whether it’s being outside like me and exercising or reading a book, or whatever it is, is you’ve got to take that time to enjoy the journey and guard some of that time.

Paula Jenkins: I thank you so much for joining me, Lisa. It’s been so much fun talking to you.

Lisa Princic: You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

Branding and growth specialist Lisa Princic joins host Paula Jenkins to talk about Scaling Deep and how to build a business around what you really want to do. Tune in! #podcast #entrepreneur #growyourbusiness